Electronic Musician - Latest Comments in EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

Desmond — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:17:49 -0000

???
Ouch... Harsh on the OP... I do admit that a DI input was a bit bad, but I think you were a little too critical (especially with the consistent use of exclamation points). The OP could have waited to get a more objective test and split the guitar out signal to an amp and direct in, put the two signals on separate tracks and applied the amp modelers to the DI version. That would have corrected the problem while having the same exact performance to compare the amps/simulators with.
I do agree that your opinion is justified, but your (slightly harsh) manner of expressing it could take away the efficacy of your argument. Just saying...

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

Desmond — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 17:52:18 -0000

Agreed. It's easy to compare poo against poo, because its very similar. To match a diamond against an imitation is impossible, however; a trained eye – or ear, in this case – can totally spot the difference. I think that if the amps had been set diamond first, and then the amp modelers were tweaked only within their natural parameters (i.e. no external EQ, verb/delay, etc.), we would have had a much better test with which to base our opinions.

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

akj — Tue, 01 Jun 2010 09:41:51 -0000

a cool and very instructive test drive, but it would be cool if you provided also the dry samples so that one could try it remodel the sounds also on other amp sims or with different settings

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

gregrjones — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:26:54 -0000

Mark, this has been such a fascinating article. When I took the test, I was able to guess the tube amps about 70-80% of the time. However, I DO hear such similarities between the tube amps and the modellers. The giveaways to my ears was usually the warmth in the low to mids or occasionally I heard harsh highs in a modeller.

To my ears, these differences could have been corrected with the modellers simply by EQ. I bet if 400 hz was boosted 3dB or 7-10k was dropped on some of these modellers, I would have had a more difficult time.

I own a Line 6 Pod and owned a Flextone for years. I sold the Flextone and bought a Mesa Lone Star because I couldn't quite dial in the blues tone that I wanted out of the Flextone. I really do hear a difference, but in my own mind concluded that the modelling amps were better at high gain tones than those in-between bluesey tones. I know you're saying that they struggle with clean tones the most (which I definitely agree) but I also struggled with getting an SRV tone out of the modelling amps.

With that said, I've always loved the roots rock Fender deluxe and Vox AC-30 tones out of modellers. So perhaps with mid-gain tones, they succeed in some places (Vox and Deluxe) but struggle with the SRV stuff.

Finally, I really DO hear a difference in my tube amp when playing live vs running the Pod. Part of it has to be the monitoring as I usually run the Pod straight thru the PA. But I'm wondering if there is some sort of difference in listening to the digital modelling tones live vs recorded. In other words, in my experience, digital modelling is NOT a compromise for recording, but I'm not ready to give up my tube amp for live performances.

Great work! I'd like to see more research on this subject. The hype of "digital modelling = compromise" and "tubes are superior" is overblown. I bought into it for a little while....

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

brandon9271 — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:52:09 -0000

Very interesting article! LOVED it! I was surprised that I got many of them right but they weren't necessarily my favs.. and the pros had the same feeling about it. Also, I agreed with the guy that said the modelers seemed to be lacking something in the bottom end. Not just a matter of EQ but something was missing in the character.. That digital "thinness" That's always turned me off with the Pods. BTW, The entire time I was reading this I was thinking it was "Pod Farm" instead of "Amp Farm" I didn't even know there was a difference ;p lol

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

mm — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:54:09 -0000

The crucial aspects of a guitar amp recording is a mic placement and room acoustics. So I am not sure that it was a correct comparison where amp modellers work with their optimal settings and miced amps probably suck because the mic was placed one inch out of its rocking spot. I don't say modellers are worst or better, everything has its own place, but this test is doubtful due to the lack of details.

And what about room reflections? Everybody knows that improper room reverb may ruin even a brilliant guitar amp sound when recorded. When you play at the same room with an amplifier you wouldn't notice that room sound is even awful, because your brain make some "adjustments" to the signal. Your brain "knows" how sounds travel in a different acoustic environments and make some "tweakings" to the signal. But when you sit in a proper control room or just in a room with another acoustics than the room with the amp you may often clearly notice that shitty "roomish" sound of the reamped signal.

In other words, modellers are made not for simulating a "Real recording environment" but for getting a great tone. That is why experts are choose modellers tones rather than the miced ones even when they made a correct guess of an amp.

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

Jim Ford — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:09:15 -0000

Well, there definitely was a difference among the 5 Twin contenders, but I have no clue which is the real Fender Twin. Also, I was very disappointed that the Web Clips didn't work. Let me know when you get that going. Thanks!

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

hangember — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:17:59 -0000

Maybe next time, a test in the same mix, will be more obvious which is the live amp. Great experience anyway

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

Willie — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:48:12 -0000

It's simply amazing the ineptitude that you are exhibiting in this so called comparison!
First of all you should have put together a panel to decide the parameters of the test as you are obviously not qualified!
Just the fact that you chose to record DI examples in the first place shows your complete lack of understanding the reasons that amps need to be used at all!
And that you used Lace to record the DI examples just drives the nail in!
You gathered up a really decent panel, it's to bad your test was a complete failure!
If you can put away your ego and except that you don't understand how to do a proper comparison of this important subject, you would retract your article until you can find a more qualified person and/or panel to conduct this test.
Peace

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

John — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 14:17:51 -0000

This test is completely bogus, for the following very simple reason (stated right in the article):

"The one x factor was that I wouldn't have access to the real amps until the day of the testing. Then, I'd have to quickly adjust them so their settings would be similar to those I'd used on the modelers."

I can make any real amp sound like crap by adjusting its settings to sound like a modeler. The real test is to optimize the settings - and the recording - of a real amp and try to make the modeler sound as good.

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

Red Rider — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 08:44:33 -0000

Very true!

Re: EM tests software-modeled guitar amps against the real thing

Dog BBQ — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:48:38 -0000

Seems simple to pick the Live amp!!!

Once you start hitting two or more notes the amp sims have a cheesy buzz to them

and the heavy marshall example just had the full sound that only a live amp can deliver

It's all taste and seems amp sim might be the new sound micing an amp is no big deal that you need to spend hours on

just use your ears

sometimes I find myself spending more time with the amp sims having so many options but you can never escape the buzz